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... then the assumption of free will is very significant indeed.

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Yes, until we actually become aware of the axioms we take for granted.

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I am not one of them, but there are some people who act as if they themselves are the conscious creators of their reality.

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It doesn't, which is why it requires a certain leap of faith in either direction.

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However, most people are socially conditioned with the assumption of a material universe, to the point where they will never question it.

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By the way, even the thought that there is something outside your awareness, is a thought contained within your awareness.

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Could you elaborate on that?

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Axioms are, by definition, taken for granted. It is quite possible to examine an axiom fully, and still accept it wholeheartedly.

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I find it rather hard to believe that such conditioning is social rather than instinctual, but I suppose that is another topic altogether.

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I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up. I can't imagine anyone trying to dispute this point.

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Post edited at 9:28 am on Nov. 1, 2008 by Radon

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Pragmatism is all.

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Axioms are, by definition, taken for granted. It is quite possible to examine an axiom fully, and still accept it wholeheartedly.

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This is called blind faith.

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http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-yatapys-support-a.html

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You said: "An assumption is only significant if the antithetical assumption is viable." The antithetical assumption of free will is determinism, which is viable. Therefore free will is significant. Or by viable, perhaps you meant "instinctively correct"?

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Subjectivism is equally abstract and even less relevant to our existence (although I will concede this is, to a certain extent, personal opinion).

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It's also quite irrational.

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I'm not arguing for objectivism per se, I'm arguing for practicality. As I mentioned previously, I'm ultimately agnostic.

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Or it could simply be that the same entities/perceptions keep appearing again and again as if they were always there. Or it could be instinctual, correct.

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Quote: from SpM at 11:42 am on Nov. 1, 2008

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Axioms are, by definition, taken for granted. It is quite possible to examine an axiom fully, and still accept it wholeheartedly.

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This is called blind faith.

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It will create sound waves, but the question states whether anything exists outside our own consciousness. If we are not there to hear it, or perceive it, who says it exists at all.

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The fact that humans are not the end-all-be-all of existence. To think that just because we aren't there to perceive it, that it doesn't exist is non-nonsensical.

What, then, was going on in the universe before the first conscious being? How did the planets and stars form? Or did they just pop into existence when the first person saw them.

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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The fact that humans are not the end-all-be-all of existence. To think that just because we aren't there to perceive it, that it doesn't exist is non-nonsensical.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNVGXFCsaIA

(this is the kind of guy SpM wants to scrape off pavements)

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What, then, was going on in the universe before the first conscious being? How did the planets and stars form? Or did they just pop into existence when the first person saw them.

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Post edited at 1:26 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 by Radon

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Pragmatism is all.

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This paradigm is the most practical, and there are certain inferences you can make that speak in favor of it. But the whole point is to understand it's an assumption. You can't test something without having a perception of it. Even when you refer to "it" in your sentence, you are simply setting up a mental picture within your awareness.

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If I refer to "that apple" I am not referring to my mental image of an apple, I am referring to the actual physical apple.

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The interesting thing is not whether they did or not, it's our inability to falsify it.

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Do realize what you are saying? Our inability to prove to ourselves that things exist when we are not there --like we are gods or something-- does not mean that those things don't exist.

Are you really claiming that you are justified in not believing that anything exists outside of your consciousness?

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

Post edited at 11:53 pm on Nov. 11, 2008 by hithere

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http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-iasaoi-support-a.html

Birds would hear it. And ants and worms too would feel the vibrations.

If every human was deaf, there would still be sound, there would simply be nothing to perceive it.
Does light still exist when you close your eyes?

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dont wonder why im not smiling, wonder why you are.